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The Shattered Pakistani Dream and Role of the Military
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#1
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The Shattered Pakistani Dream and Role of the Military Posted: Aug 15, 2005 11:14 AM
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#2
PanjabiSher, MD, PhD, DPhil
nastynike83@hotmail.com


Posts: 347
From: USA
Registered: Jan, 2005


Re: The Shattered Pakistani Dream and Role of the Military Posted: Aug 15, 2005 4:55 PM
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Pak Generals worth Rs 30 cr each!

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1196712.cms

WASHINGTON: A Pakistani security expert has said that that the Pakistan military took up four percent of the country GDP and a Maj General of the armed forces was worth a staggering Rs 30 crore each.

In a recent work completed with the Woodrow Wilson Centre, Dr Ayesha Siddiqa, said the military owned seven to 10 percent of private sector assets. She said that the business was worth about Rs 200 billion, but if real estate were added, the figure would rise to Rs 1 trillion plus, something that could be called the army's "side economy."

Now I wonder how does a regular Pakistani feels. Looks like they have multiple KINGS.
Paki to Core how many of these you know.

#3
Fani
silentpak1@yahoo.com


Posts: 34
From: Canada
Registered: Sep, 2004


Re: The Shattered Pakistani Dream and Role of the Military Posted: Aug 15, 2005 5:03 PM
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Hey, look who is talking. May i ask Mr. Iqbal who had been strengthening or rather acting as puppets of Army?
It had been Jamaat Islami (or Hara.....) who had always negotiated deals with the evil Generals and got their share of booty. They showed them ways to grab power, fully co-operated with them and fooled the masses by staging rallies. No doubt these guys are called "friendly opposition" in Musharaaf's regime.
The height of their hypocrisy is evident as they ask other ladies to remain in their houses but push their daughter, wife and sister in law into assemblies.
They are crying now only because the situation has changed and Musharaaf, under western pressure has to step on their tail (Madaraasas). Musharaaf has given hints like the recent deportation of Fazlu from UAE and now all of these clowns have made an alliance, not for the sake of the poor but to protect their political grass roots.
The fate of Pakis are unclear as they stand between a sea and ditch (Army and Mullahs).

#4
Sarmad Khan
sarmad_m2001@yahoo.com


Posts: 55
From: Toronto
Registered: Jul, 2005


Re: The Shattered Pakistani Dream and Role of the Military Posted: Aug 16, 2005 12:45 AM
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THE ARTICLE IS REALLY A THOUGHT PROVOKING AND LEAKS OUT SECRET INFORMATIONS THAT NAWAZ SHAREEF-AHASAN IQBAL AND CO. WAS LOYAL TO PAKISTAN.


I think that there are still people in Pakistan who remember each development and dont forget activities of ant-state elements so easily.

Mr. Ahsan Iqbal was blessed with ministership for his loyality to Dhagga Kingwho was dreaming to be Ameer-ul-Momineen after the earlier-notorious Ameer-ul-Momoneen who digged him out from Ittefaq Foundary and blessed him a job of looting, plundering and predating the Pakistan and Pakistani nation along with his "Kushta-Jaat; Phajjeey de Paye and sexy water beds"[/b.]

The writer like others were supporter of the King who gifted vital industrial units to his own people on a price which was even lesser than the deposit of those organizations in banks.

I want to say Ahsan Iqbal type people that we hate him and all his allies who looted and are intending to plunder national economy in the name of serving the Pakistan. If we become powerful we will paint the roads with their blood. and all dirty blood including those of all looters say CSPs, PCS, judiciary and Mansoor-ul_haq type unformed personals will also be used to paint the roads.

We the Pakistani, only welcome patriotic, broad minded and sincere leaders. All others will soon be gunned down.

#5
mohamed
kw1997@hotmail.com


Posts: 49
From: saudi arabia
Registered: Jun, 2005


Re: The Shattered Pakistani Dream and Role of the Military Posted: Aug 16, 2005 3:24 AM
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Very disturbing comments by sarmad Khan.
But i understand his pain.
Every pakistani feels that way.

It seems that everybody who comes to power whether military or civilians loot us, bring us one inch closer to disharmony and then leave. Look at the present government. They had a seven point agenda. Have they fulfilled even one of their promises?.

baluchistan is going the same route as Bangladesh. Does any body care. What happened to all those comittees formed for suggestion reform and their recomendations?

Mushahid Hussain and the chudhry should have resigned.

#6
nasah
nasah29@aol.com


Posts: 1,168
From: USA
Registered: Aug, 2003


Re: The Shattered Pakistani Dream and Role of the Military Posted: Aug 16, 2005 1:04 PM
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"If we become powerful we will paint the roads with their blood. and all dirty blood including those of all looters say CSPs, PCS, judiciary and Mansoor-ul_haq type unformed personals will also be used to paint the roads.

We the Pakistani, only welcome patriotic, broad minded and sincere leaders. All others will soon be gunned down."
(sarmad)

these sentences are unbcoming of a Canadian with a great Sufi's name Sarmad -- there is enough violence already in Pakistan and in the world -- you don't need anymore for even just causes....

#7
Sarmad Khan
sarmad_m2001@yahoo.com


Posts: 55
From: Toronto
Registered: Jul, 2005


Re: The Shattered Pakistani Dream and Role of the Military Posted: Aug 16, 2005 3:12 PM
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Post No.8 NASAH

I understand your point. I am extremely a peace lover and promoter of global love, friendship, peace and security. Although, I am far away from my home land, yet I love my country, my people, may armed forces and civilians from core of my heart. I am a vegetarian and can`t harm even an ant or bee. I respect my neighbouring country, love their people as well as peoples of the entire world provided they are not involved in hatred creation and anti-human activities.

But at the same time, when I see grayhounds sucking the blood of peoples of Pakistan, see their childrens living like princes here in the west with the looted money, I become emotional like millions of other patriotic contrymen.

I dont say that all army, bureaucracy, judiciary or politician classes are corrupt; there are still traces of honest, noble and great officers who a few days back leaked out tratorship of a very senior army officer at GHQ and saved Pakistan from 37 million dollars loss as well as saved the Al-Khalid tank . The dirty man is still in chair. Had Gen Musharraf not stopped the deal the bastered would have damaged pakistan. His timely call has saved Pakistan.

I am personally of the view that crushing of such corrupt officers, black sheeps and anti-state elemments which number only few hundreds or thousands and include a majority of CSPs, PCS, Judiciary,politicians and force commanders is valid, leagal and justified to save hundredes millions of innocent Pakistanis. I am even not in favour of sparing the leader who executed agreement with IPPS and loaded poor Pakistani peoples with heavy electricity charges which are beoynd their paying capacity. Such peoples have sucked blood of innocent Pakistanis and it is the demand of our mother land that such corrupt and bastered should be gunned down and roads be painted with their blood to save Pakistan and to prommote global peace which they have been shattering by fighting and appreciating proxy wars.

#8
T.S.Murthi
murthi33@yahoo.com


Posts: 2
From: Portland OR 97229
Registered: Jul, 2004


Re: The Shattered Pakistani Dream and Role of the Military Posted: Aug 17, 2005 3:52 PM
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Sir,
Democracy and Islam do not go together. In most of the muslim countries in the world where Islamic rule is imposed, history shows that it has always been the case of iron fisted rule of a military strong man and not an elected civilian. Pakistan is no exception especially when the army there is full of mullahs. All leaders of Pakistan advocating democracy are making noise in exile living in some corner of the world. Western democracies desire an "Yes Sir" man to govern Pakistan because of it's geo-strategic position. Gen.Musharoff was a Pariah to USA and other western countries. But after 9/11, he is their darling! How can Pakistan become a democratic country against such odds? It is a wishful thinking.
T.Sathyamurthi

#9
Fazal Curmally
fhcurmally@yahoo.com


Posts: 31
From: Karachi - Pakistan
Registered: Jun, 2005


Re: The Shattered Pakistani Dream and Role of the Military Posted: Aug 18, 2005 12:22 AM
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The author is welcome to his point of view. The lesser we see the politicians the better it is for us.

If the dream was shattered, it was by the politicos not the army generals who managed top patch the country up.

Anyway the author has a right to his views. But It may be best he kept them to himself.

#10
Ahmad Chaudhary
ahmad.chaudhary@gmail.com


Posts: 1
From: Lahore
Registered: Aug, 2005


@ Mr Sarmad Posted: Aug 22, 2005 1:47 AM
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In the days of old;
Men made manners;
Manners now make men
- Don Juan, 1824

@Patriotism and Loyalty;
Even President Musharaf had to accept in a press briefing that he has no doubts over loyalty of Mr. Nawaz Sharif to Pakistan, and a testament to that is the firm stand of Mr Nawaz Sharif when he was persuaded/warned 5 times by President Clinton against the nuclear sanctions.

o As for your concern regarding the corruption of politicians, most of us are trapped in the propoganda of the Military (which is their only justification for them to rule)that they had to take over the country as the politicians were busy looting and plunderering the wealth of our nation and we (the generals) are very pious and saviors of this country (our weak memory tends to forget the 1971 incident). General Musharaf promised Pakistan 'across the board accountability' and 'true democracy'. The politicians of India, Indonesia, Bangladesh and many other third world countries are more corrupt and incapable than the ones found in Pakistan, but that is not a good enough excuse to oust an elected government in those countries, I guess Mr Ahsan Iqbal has raised some valid points

o My question to you, the general and the people of Pakistan is; do Ch. Shujaat Hussain, Ch Pervez Ellahi, Faisal Saleh Hayat, Aftab Sherpao, Liaqut Jatoi, Rao Sikander, Gen Javed Qazi (all alligators of financial corruption) along with the Bosans, Mazaris, Lagharis, Hirajs & Dareshaks, represent TRUE DEMOCRACY??? Are they any better than Nawaz Sharif i.e. assuming that the charges you have placed are true???

o Another question is that if Mr. Nawaz Sharif was corrupt and a criminal to the nation, WHY DID the General allow him to leave the country and break his promise of accountability, why in 6 years not even one case of corruption came up against Mr Nawaz Sharif and his Cabinet after 1997, after all NS was in the custody of the govt till 12th Oct 1999...

o The NAB of Musharaf itself had announced that out of all the cases of corruption NAB is dealing with Armed forces top the list in terms of the money recovered following them are the Bureacrats and politicians fare up on # 3. (but certainly their corruption big or small is advertised well)

o Today a serving general is worth more than a cabinet member just through his property and real estate portfolio...

x As a member of the youth of this nation, all the major development projects I can see in my country were initiated by PML-N govts e.g. the Lhr and Khi airports, Gawadar port, Makran coastal highway, Chashma Hydro power project, Ghazi Barotha, motorways, kohat tunnel, dualization of national highways, digitalization of telecommunication network, cellular Phone infrastructure, Karachi Northern By pass, lahore ring road, farm to market roads just to name a few i can remember instantly....

x You made a few personal comments regarding Mr Ahsan Iqbal too, let me remind you that Mr. Ahsan Iqbal is one of those politicians who not only have stood by their principles, but he is also an example of honesty and dignity in Pakistani Politics, and to his name neither does he has any industrial unit nor allotted marlas or acres of land.....

x As for your mudslinging on Nawaz Sharif, Mr. Musharaf's character and personal life can be criticized more easily than NS but we are talking here of the Nation, Clinton despite his moral evils is considered a hero in America for his contributions for the USA.

#11
Sarmad Khan
sarmad_m2001@yahoo.com


Posts: 55
From: Toronto
Registered: Jul, 2005


Re: @ Mr Sarmad Posted: Aug 23, 2005 1:03 PM
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POST NO. 10 Ahmad Chaudhary

Dear Ch. Sahib,

First of all I clarify that I am one of the admirer of General Musharraf for two reasons.
1. He has saved Pakistan from further deterioration by kicking out CSP/PCS class from the unlimited authoritative posts at District and sub-division management level. Where the DCs and ACs used to be king and elected representatives were asked to sit in their waiting rooms for hour. According to me the real cause of corruption, deterioration is this dirty class. The old ICS class had only craze of protocol as they used to mimic the Goras. But CSP and later on PCS class demolished Pakistan and contributed in creation of Bengla Desh by their rough and violent behavior with the peoples of Bengla Desh and later on in the West Pakistan, particularly in SINDH, BALUCHISTAN, NWP AND Saraiki belt. The question is that why the entire Pakistan is against our Punjab?
2. The other major contribution of Gen. Musharraf is local body system, which I believe will contribute in de-centralization of powers and people will be able to forget their slogans of languages, geography and will enter into the mainstream to build PAKISTAN more progressive and prosper.

As regards, your question about the patriotism of Ch. Shujaat Hussain, Ch Pervez Ellahi, Faisal Saleh Hayat, Aftab Sherpao, Liaqut Jatoi, Rao Sikander, Gen Javed Qazi (all alligators of financial corruption) along with the Bosans, Mazaris, Lagharis, Hirajs & Dareshaks is concerned I 100% agree and thank you for diagnosing the cancers of the nation. These looters belong to feudal class and claim to be the loyal of poor Pakistanis. What a joke?

As far as loyalty of MR. Nawaz Shareef Sahib to Pakistan is concerned, I have no doubt that he was loyal to ITTEFAQ and Mian Mansha group. If you find the record of CBR, you may find several SOR wherein duty on scrap was lifted only for a day or for hour just to clear the scrap ships for Ittefaq foundry. If you go through the privatization record, you may find that large nos of golden industrial units were sold rather gifted to his allies on a price which was even lesser than the price of land, some time the stocks available in the store or the deposits of the unit in the banks. General Musharraf ousted him because the Genral had no mandate to break the constitution. Besides, presence of NS and his family in Pakistan could create problems for the military which ousted heavy mandate PM and his employee Maulana Rafique Tarar. Even if Gen. Musharraf says that NS is loyal, we the people of Pakistan cant forget his corruption. YES I THINK THAT POLICY OF MIAN SHEBAZ SHAREEF WAS BETTER. He made his efforts to curb the corruption from lower level in the Punjab..He only excluded corruption made for ITEFAQ.

As regards some mega projects are concerned, most of them are under question for corruption in leasing the contracts, paying for lands etc. Besides, such few projects are not enough from a business man PM who found two tenures to rule the country. But you forgot cooperative bank scandal, Taj company scandal which cause loss of billions to the poors, widows and retired Pakistanis. It is the General who has tried to provide remedy to the victims made under the umbrella of Mian Nawaz Shareef. You have also forgot scanda regarding export of Sugar which caused loss of millions to Pakistan. You have also forgot the tax returns of these innocent leaders.

#12
Sarmad Khan
sarmad_m2001@yahoo.com


Posts: 55
From: Toronto
Registered: Jul, 2005


Re: @ Mr Sarmad Posted: Aug 23, 2005 1:13 PM
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CONTNUED FROM POST 11

I think you may feel that I am pro-PPPP, I am not. I have not forgot Mr.10% and the leader who made cruel agreemnts for electricity with IPPS. I am exteremely a true Pakistani who loves his country and his countrymen. you may find my personal opinion from the following post.

http://www.satribune.com/thread.jsp?forum=3&thread=2608

As far as comments about MR. AHSAN IQBAL are concerned, I still believe that companion of looters is also a looter regardless how innocent he is personally.

Yes, you know that Clinton faced impeachment in Monica Scandal and a 4-star general has been recently terminated just because of having girl friends,

I again want to clarify that my struggle is for a progressive, enlightened and prosper Pakistan. My strurggle is against the cancers who wish death of my nation and my motherland by their corruption and spy activities for the enemies.

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