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#1
Administrator
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Registered: Dec, 1969


HEC Buying Fantastically Expensive Scientific Junk Posted: Jul 15, 2005 12:27 AM
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#2
nasah
nasah29@aol.com


Posts: 1,168
From: USA
Registered: Aug, 2003


Re: HEC Buying Fantastically Expensive Scientific Junk Posted: Jul 15, 2005 1:18 AM
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"I will not bother to answer these except to wish that I could be as rich as he alleges I am. Would he be so kind as to point out where I can make that kind of hourly wage?"(Dr. Hoodbhoy)

I knew Dr. Naqvi was exaggerating to a point of outright lying -- although in terms of Dr. Hoodbhoy's stature as a preeminent physicist and a celebrity speaker -- 45,000 rupees will indeed be a paltry sum of merely $800.00 for an hour of lecture in the United States -- where we pay singer Ghulam Ali sahib 8000.00 for a two hour concert....

Shame on Dr. Naqvi for taking the debate to such petty levels....

#3
ijaz gul
ijaz_gul@yahoo.com


Posts: 28
From: Pakistan
Registered: Mar, 2005


Re: HEC Buying Fantastically Expensive Scientific Junk Posted: Jul 15, 2005 8:14 AM
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There is no place in Pakistan for an Idealist, visionary or a dreamer. Knowing you , I realise how futile it is.

#4
PanjabiSher, MD, PhD, DPhil
nastynike83@hotmail.com


Posts: 347
From: USA
Registered: Jan, 2005


Re: HEC Buying Fantastically Expensive Scientific Junk Posted: Jul 15, 2005 4:24 PM
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Dr. Hoodbhoy,

Here is a better URL for Dr. Naqvi, so that he does not have to work hard. Dr. Naqvi claimed that Dr. Hoodbhoy have not published a paper in last ten years. Here is the truth

http://www.slac.stanford.edu/spires/find/wwwhepau/wwwscan?rawcmd=fin+Hoodbhoy,+Pervez

Well Dr. Hoodbhoy if you deide to come to India, you are welcome. Surely something can be arranged. We can use another eminent scholar like you. There are never enough.

#5
sara malik
saraarif@hotmail.com


Posts: 61
From: sialkot
Registered: May, 2005


Re: HEC Buying Fantastically Expensive Scientific Junk Posted: Jul 15, 2005 4:25 PM
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whatever HEC n its problem of funding.
but if all this is reality then what is the future of those students who r going to do masters n phd's?
whatever will come in Pakistan that will b expensive scientific junk.
no one wil give us new technologies freely n cheaply
one thing has been cleared that every technology which comes in pakistan thats old n 3rd Gen technologies in other developed countries.
which latest technology came to pakistan for its science students?
has anyone offered Pakistan new technology with the passage of time?
no never
even for new researches students select those instruments which can b easily available in this country?
no idea personally abt this instrument but whatever it is at least pakestaan has realized that there shud b instruments n apparatus for scientists.
hope so for other fields???
for pakistan every thing is expensive either u buy a apparatus or a sewing needle.
no one wil give u freely n as a present.
those princes n kings have sacrificed?
realizing of this old tech its good but what is the new tech?
what is the cost of new tech?
can v afford that ?
or after 10yrs will come in paksitan?
then that tech will b new or old for Pakistan ?
is all this futile ?

#6
Zorgon
zorgon4676@yahoo.com


Posts: 733
From: USA
Registered: Jul, 2004


Re: HEC Buying Fantastically Expensive Scientific Junk Posted: Jul 15, 2005 7:55 PM
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Indians should find a way to induce Dr. Hoodbhoy to become an Indian citizen and head up the Ministry of Education and give him a free hand to clean up any inefficiencies, weed out the deadwood and further improve education quality to be top class in the world.

As for the Van de Graaf machine, perhaps, the HEC believes in reinveting the wheel as a superior way to sping ahead in scientific research. Or, may be they want to own the only piece left in the world that could become an increasingly valuable museum piece attracting foreign visitors and gaining much needed foreign currency.

Pakistan is lucky to have people like Dr. Hoodbhoy who have the guts to challenge useless bureaucrats and their inefficient, nepotistic and corrupt ways.

On the lighter side, another devious thought to the Indian right wingers: may be it is a good idea to get the RAW to keep Hoodbhoy from probing into such matters. This way, the HEC and its clowns will keep wasting precious resources and assure that Pakistan is kept backwards for ever! The RAW should convince HEC to acquire a Van de Graff for every college in Pakistan!!

#7
Vigilant
vigilant200@yahoo.com


Posts: 106
From: USA
Registered: Mar, 2005


Re: HEC Buying Fantastically Expensive Scientific Junk Posted: Jul 15, 2005 8:20 PM
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Hoodbhoy is a genius..... and he is critical of the education system of Pakistan and quite rightly so.....

Pakistani-born physicist Pervez Amirali Hoodbhoy, who was awarded UNESCO's prestigious Kalinga Prize for the popularisation of science in 2003, is one of a rare breed of scientists, equally at home in both the world of science and the world of social and political affairs.
Hoodbhoy, professor of physics at Quaid-e-Azam University in Islamabad, was born in Karachi in 1950. He received his bachelor's, master's and PhD degrees all from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, USA, studying electrical engineering, mathematics, solid state physics and nuclear physics along the way. Not wanting to be another statistic in the brain-drain phenomenon, he returned to Pakistan in the early 1970s and has been a faculty member at Quaid-e-Azam University ever since. His main research interests are quantum mechanics, quantum chromodynamics and supersymmetry.
An ICTP Associate from 1986 to 1992, Hoodbhoy has visited Trieste on many occasions. In November 1997, he lectured at the Abdus Salam Memorial Meeting, organised one year after the death of the Centre's founder. Hoodbhoy used the occasion to speak "not about Salam's unparalleled success but, instead, his most spectacular failure: Salam's unfulfilled quest to bring science to Pakistan and other Muslim countries."
"It's a sad paradox," Hoodbhoy recalled then," that such a profoundly religious individual as Salam, who was member of the Muslim Ahmadiya minority, ultimately became a non-Muslim in a state where non-Muslims are by law second-class citizens."
Even worse, "Salam was the target of bitter attacks and vilification. Magazines concocted wild conspiracies of nuclear espionage, claiming that Salam had sold nuclear secrets to India. Fundamentalist student groups made it virtually impossible for Salam to visit any university campus. I am ashamed to say that Salam could never set foot in my university in Islamabad, whose physics department had been inspired in considerable part by him, and which was the only department in the country where his lectures could be understood."
The result, Hoodbhoy bitterly comments today, is that "Salam's name remains unknown to school children in Pakistan."
Apart from his scientific work, Hoodbhoy chairs Mashal Books, a non-profit organisation that publishes monographs in Urdu on women's rights, education and the environment. He has written and spoken extensively on topics ranging from science in Islam to education in Pakistan. More recently, Hoodbhoy has produced three documentary series in Urdu, broadcast weekly by Pakistani television, focusing on education, the power of scientific thinking and the mysteries in the universe.
Hoodbhoy is deeply critical of Pakistan's educational system. "It is based upon rote learning," he notes, "and it actively seeks to destroy the inquisitiveness of early childhood by rewarding obedience and punishing originality. Fortunately it is not 100 percent efficient. Thousands of viewers of the Urdu science television serials that I produced wrote letters seeking answers to questions ranging from black holes and supernovae to the ozone hole and human cloning."

#8
nasah
nasah29@aol.com


Posts: 1,168
From: USA
Registered: Aug, 2003


Re: HEC Buying Fantastically Expensive Scientific Junk Posted: Jul 16, 2005 12:43 AM
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Zorgon I second your proposal -- India should offer citizenship to both Jewels of Pakistan -- the Poet Laureate Ahmed Faraz and the Preeminent Physicist Dr. Hoodbhoy and invite them to migrate to New Delhi...

....and make one the Head of Indian Academy of Arts and Literature -- and the other to head the Indian Academy of Physical Sciences.......

Qadre Gauhar shah daanudya ba daanud Johree......there are plenty of Johrees in India...

#9
mohamed
kw1997@hotmail.com


Posts: 49
From: saudi arabia
Registered: Jun, 2005


Re: HEC Buying Fantastically Expensive Scientific Junk Posted: Jul 16, 2005 3:11 AM
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Hello sara


Please do not consider me rude in suggesting that you
should not make comments to something you have no idea
about.
Leave it to the Physicists, please.


Mohamed
saudi Arabia

#10
sara malik
saraarif@hotmail.com


Posts: 61
From: sialkot
Registered: May, 2005


Re: HEC Buying Fantastically Expensive Scientific Junk Posted: Jul 16, 2005 4:06 AM
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Respected Mr Mohamamd,
Yes u r right. Em not any physicist. but if u talk in a public session n discuss only one topic then u have to prove that with all verifications. as this discussion is about physicists n HEC. I am talking with referennce of HEC n all scientific instruments. em not talking here being physicists, em discussing here only due to this that I researched only once for my final project of Masters related to Agric field from a good research centre of Pak . but observation abt that inst was this that was so miserable for scientific researches. Today v r taking old inst n commenting those but we have to think that how can v help in getting new inst?
em telling here HEC (Pakistan) progress n its appreciative approach for equipments of science fields.if that approach for physicists is wrong then wrong.
But in Pak n QAU physics is not only subj there r many other researches which demand new equipments in every science field.
Sorry sir for any irrelevancy.
Thank u

#11
mohamed
kw1997@hotmail.com


Posts: 49
From: saudi arabia
Registered: Jun, 2005


Re: HEC Buying Fantastically Expensive Scientific Junk Posted: Jul 16, 2005 4:57 AM
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Hello sara


I agree with you, Pakistan needs new equipment and teachers and a good system. But it should be the proper equipment not obsolete or useless. We are a poor country and can not afford waste.

Only the experts can tell us the suitability and Dr Hoodbhoy is quite a capable man. We need whistle blowers like him.They keep everybody on their toes.

I hope the HEC people review their strategies and stop bickering like uneducated people.


Mohamed

saudi Arabia

#12
Fatin Khan
aliencynic@yahoo.co.uk


Posts: 661
From: Germany
Registered: Jun, 2004


Re: HEC Buying Fantastically Expensive Scientific Junk Posted: Jul 16, 2005 6:20 AM
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Zorgon,
Your suggestion regarding Indian citizenship exposes your deeply patriotic heart. We can trade on some other personalities, but please no Hoodbhoy. We 'll be more than happy to give you Sheikh Rashid and Aslam Beg :-)

Apart from this light hearted CBM, suggestion at the end of your post regarding RAW is actually serious one. I mean, Hoodbhoy has been accused for last many years of being agent of india, hindus, jews, americans, british, costa ricians, ugandans and maritans. This is the standard method in Pak to defame a genuine crusading voice.

Thanks

#13
Anil
adonis_look@yahoo.com


Posts: 19
From: toronto
Registered: Nov, 2004


Re: HEC Buying Fantastically Expensive Scientific Junk Posted: Jul 16, 2005 9:33 AM
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sorry to burst ur bubble but Hoodboy may be best in Pakistan but well indian standard is too high for hoodboy to deserve chief of any research program in india.......just visti any iit iisc tifr barc there are many much more than hoodboys lyign there...

he wants he can join as normal faculty though

#14
gulzar khan
sudozai@hotmail.com


Posts: 28
From: RAWALPINDI
Registered: Nov, 2003


Re: HEC Buying Fantastically Expensive Scientific Junk Posted: Jul 16, 2005 10:52 AM
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Dr Hoodbhoy is absolutely right and i'm surprised that HEC under the able leadership of Dr Atta is wasting national wealth in such worthless junk. I would suggest that notice of such wastage be taken at the highest level and if payment has not been made for this machine , the order must be cancelled.
Sardar M Gulzar Khan
Rawalpindi

#15
Zorgon
zorgon4676@yahoo.com


Posts: 733
From: USA
Registered: Jul, 2004


Re: HEC Buying Fantastically Expensive Scientific Junk Posted: Jul 16, 2005 12:20 PM
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#13, Fatin,

You are indeed a very generous guy to offer to India Sheik Rashid and Aslam Beg :-) Thank god you did not offer Hamid Gul along with the duo!

>>>Hoodbhoy has been accused for last many years of being agent of india, hindus, jews, americans, british, costa ricians, ugandans and maritans<<<<

Fatin, I did not know about this. It is commendable that Hoodbhoy continues to speak up against the powerful oligarchs in spite of all this accusations. By the way, is Hoodbhoy a Muslim?

On the serious side, the Pakistani authorities are missing the point on education. Pumping money into creating Ph.D's should not be the priority. The focus should be on early, primary and high-school education where the kids are taught to think creatively and develop a sense of exploration and curiosity. They should be guided to think logically and encouraged to challenge existing norms and paradigms in both scientific and social subjects. Only a "liberated", expanded and rational mind will grow up to be top researchers. I think HEC should close shop and the energies and resources should be channeled to early education as a necessary prerequisite to improving the quality of higher education.

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