South Asia Tribune Discussion Forums
A Provocative View of Indo-Pakistan Partition and Mahatama Gandhi
Home » Forums » South Asia Tribune Forum

Replies: 26   Pages: 2  

Welcome, Guest
Login / Register
Guest Settings

 Reply to this Topic  Post New Topic  Search Forum
 
  Back to Topic List
 
Replies: 26   Pages: 2   [ Go: 1 2 » ]
#1
Administrator
forumsadmin@satribune.com


Posts: 2,250
Registered: Dec, 1969


A Provocative View of Indo-Pakistan Partition and Mahatama Gandhi Posted: Aug 13, 2005 1:52 AM
Reply
Discuss the story A Provocative View of Indo-Pakistan Partition and Mahatama Gandhi at

http://www.satribune.com/archives/200508/P1_farz.htm

- Your message will be posted unedited, but we reserve the right to edit or remove any message.
- Please:
- Do NOT use indecent or abusive language.
- NO personal attacks.
- NO communal or religious bigotry.
- Stay on the subject
- Report abusive language to the Admin


#2
mirror-image
icecandyman25@yahoo.com


Posts: 58
Registered: Jun, 2005


Re: A Provocative View of Indo-Pakistan Partition and Mahatama Gandhi Posted: Aug 13, 2005 11:20 AM
Reply
Interesting Article and interesting view point indeed,

If gandi would never have been assasinated, and would have lived how his legacy would be seen would have been different from how it is percieved today.

As the author intelligently mentioned, Gothe made sure the indo pak divide happened on his dead body.

Rest is history now.

#3
Fatin Khan
aliencynic@yahoo.co.uk


Posts: 661
From: Germany
Registered: Jun, 2004


Re: A Provocative View of Indo-Pakistan Partition and Mahatama Gandhi Posted: Aug 14, 2005 5:36 AM
Reply
Whay is it that legacy of 1940's haunting us forever? Writer of this article, while raising some interesting points, seems to put a significance in an act of murder which murderer would never have thought of himself.

Was it an isolated,random act of a disillusioned youth like present day suicide bombers or had some connection with an organised entity, the al-qaida analogue of 1948 India? I dont normally subscribe to conspiracy theories, but a discreet, event like murder, can possibly (and likely to) have a sequence of other discreet connected events, culminating in in this last act, involving discreet persona.

Perhaps both views are true.

Like Tony Blair might be crying foul that London bombing has nothing to do with Iraq war, and is only the manifestation of some wayward ideologies. But no one can deny that there exist some problems in the world, in which old british empire and new GB are directly involved. And that this involvement has a known history of conflict, having been capitalised by known terrorist organisations.
Now that some wayward muslim youth finds himself ready to die due to his lopsided thinking this does not mean there were no organised entities with a history of conflict, (gov. of GB and alqaeda of these years, PLO of past etc.)

Finally, Ghandi was a great resistance leader to me who understood well about the well-being of millions of his countrymen. This alone is enough to make him great. Putting spirituality stuff only complicates the matter. It
would be a great irony if Ghandi himself helped complicating this simple matter.

Godse may be the hero of many in India, as author impicitly implies, but we should not forget that India in present state owes her existece to the Ghandi and not Godse.

#4
Fatin Khan
aliencynic@yahoo.co.uk


Posts: 661
From: Germany
Registered: Jun, 2004


Re: A Provocative View of Indo-Pakistan Partition and Mahatama Gandhi Posted: Aug 14, 2005 5:50 AM
Reply
On another note about the relation between the leader and the lead.

Listen to the jewish settlers in Palesine now being evacuated by Israeli gov. Despite their frequent reference to Old Testament and God's promise to him, sometimes they seem very innocent to me. Have'nt they been fooled by Sharon, other Israeli gov. and ideologues of Zionism into believing that whole of the land belongs to them?

Or listen to Pakistanis complaining that Jinnah promised us an Islamic state, a promise which was never materialised. Were not they fooled by Muslim League leaders into believing in an ideological, utopian paradise?

Or in this article, the feelings of Godse convey the same message of disillusionment.

#5
Khalistan
tobataeksingh@gmail.com


Posts: 88
From: Toronto
Registered: May, 2005


Re: A Provocative View of Indo-Pakistan Partition and Mahatama Gandhi Posted: Aug 14, 2005 10:22 AM
Reply
#5

Mr. Khan

Mr. Jinnah never promised an idelogical Islamic state or an utopian paradise. Despite of all out efforts by short sighted military rulers majority of Pakastanis still believe that there Quaid was not for a theocratic state but a progressive, tolerant society, without any discrimiation and distinction.

#6
nasah
nasah29@aol.com


Posts: 1,168
From: USA
Registered: Aug, 2003


Re: A Provocative View of Indo-Pakistan Partition and Mahatama Gandhi Posted: Aug 14, 2005 12:28 PM
Reply
it's true that Gandhi was the first leader who brought religion into the politics -- but it was not to divide but to unite and bring together people of different faiths in the Fight for Freedom from British Rule.....

when the Hindu Storm Trooper Godse of that Hitler-admiring RSS shot Gandhi -- to the utter surprise of the Hindu Fascistsass -- Gandhi shot back Godse as well....

....dying Gandhi shot dead the RSS dream of a Hindu Rashtra with India as a Hindu theocratic state -- in the cheap imitation of Pakistan as an Islamic state....for all times to come...

for thirty years post independence this miniscule minority of black-capped black-hearted RSS Vultures in ridiculous looking khaki shorts and Bata's sandals -- could not show their blackened faces to the rest of the secular Hindus of India......because of that Black Deed......that boomranged so badly they didn't know what hit them

....till a man with two masks appeared on the political horizon of India......and blashphemy became acceptable as epiphany

yes Indian democraZy and secularism in a way owe a lot to that despicable murderer -- a sorry excuse for an Indian post independence youth -- of Mahatma Gandhi -- that Pariah of the subcontinental world -- Nathu Ram Godse(MHSBIHTE)..

......May His Soul Burn In Hell Till Eternity.....

good to see you Farzana on SAT...please write regularly and more power to your pen...

#7
Fatin Khan
aliencynic@yahoo.co.uk


Posts: 661
From: Germany
Registered: Jun, 2004


Re: A Provocative View of Indo-Pakistan Partition and Mahatama Gandhi Posted: Aug 15, 2005 6:42 AM
Reply
Khalistan,
You are both right and wrong. Right because Jinnah never meant what me made of Pakistan. Wrong because Jinnah actually did promise a state which would be a "labortary" of Islam. That is another matter that after 58 years Pakistan still remains a labortary to carry out experiments
by establishment.

As for leadership of Muslim League besides Jinnah, they made no secret of their ideology. Everybody who did politics on the basis other than their religious ideology was dubbed traitor.

#8
mrsingh
msatnam@indiatimes.com


Posts: 87
From: India
Registered: Jun, 2005


Re: A Provocative View of Indo-Pakistan Partition and Mahatama Gandhi Posted: Aug 15, 2005 7:52 AM
Reply
khali-pakistan,

Pakis will continue to believe that jinnah was not for a theocratic state but a progressive, tolerant society, without any discrimiation and distinction. All they have is his speech after the partition where even jinnah-mian was not sure whether he was trying to fool the pakis or himself. Secular-State he sid. All this after perpetrating one of the largest massacres in history with what was his direct action plan.

And I am not talking about how many Hindus or Muslims got killed. People got killed. And just because jinnah declared a'divided-India or a destroyed-India.

And who doesn't know about his secret correspondence with Churchil where churchil is referred to as 'gillie' to maintain his anonymity.

What Britain is witnesing today is pay-back time. Their baby has turned in to a brat. Serves than right.

How their divide-and-rule strategy is going to pay back is too early to tell. The US is smart. Look how it made a fool of all those high moralists by sighing a nuke-tech deal with India. The US is not a super power for nothing. The European countries is nothing but a raw material for the US. Even Great-Britain.

As for whether jinnahs speech was secular or not, who cares as long as we all know what this guy committed.

Thanks.

#9
Indian
indian@aol.com


Posts: 533
From: post
Registered: Sep, 2003


Re: A Provocative View of Indo-Pakistan Partition and Mahatama Gandhi Posted: Aug 15, 2005 8:30 AM
Reply
#11

Well said Mr Singh.

Pakistan was conceived not out of a brillaint idea or vision, nor was it conceived because of the love for muslims, partcularly given Pakistan stopped muslim immigration from India in early 50s and given that the biggest systematic, well planned and thought-out genocide of the muslims ever committed in history was by the pakistani establishment against muslims, its so called very own people that it was created to protect.

Pakistan was conceived for one reason and one reason only - to massage the egos of some well heeled feudal muslim figures, who wanted to preserve their privileges at any cost. That protection of a handful of families continues till this day is a testament that a country , any country, that is borne out of hatred will reap exactly that.

It is a country perpetually at war with all neighbours (Afghanistan, Iran, India), is not at ease with itself, therefore is unable to tolerate any form of islam other than sunni (let us not even mention other religions), is reviled the world over due to its inextricable links with terrorism and active participation and promotion thereof, is run by a handful of absolutely corrupt army officers who are unelected and thus unaccountable.

On all accounts, it would have been a failed state, were it not for continuous hand-outs by its supposed benefactors.

#10
mrsingh
msatnam@indiatimes.com


Posts: 87
From: India
Registered: Jun, 2005


Re: A Provocative View of Indo-Pakistan Partition and Mahatama Gandhi Posted: Aug 15, 2005 9:20 AM
Reply
indian,

The well healed feudal muslim figures were on their own incapable of carrying out an operation of such a scale and that too when figures like Gandhi were still alive. They were created, aided, abetted, and financed by the British. Churchills opposition for handing over India to the Hindus is well known.

What explains the flip-flops of jinnah ?? When asked to join the muslim-league when it was founded he refused by saying that he is an Indian first and a muslim later and that 'swaraj' for him means Hindu-Muslim unity. After spending long years in Britain and returning back to India he joined the league on condition that the the league will work for the interests of the muslims even if they clash with national interest. After partition he says pak will be a secular country. I won't be surprised to learn he was in bed with the English.

It was an all-out British enterprise.

Thanks.

#11
mrsingh
msatnam@indiatimes.com


Posts: 87
From: India
Registered: Jun, 2005


Re: A Provocative View of Indo-Pakistan Partition and Mahatama Gandhi Posted: Aug 15, 2005 9:38 AM
Reply
And whats more, the British haven't still done away with their divide-and-rule-policy.

The British law even today take the Hindus and the Sikh as not just distinct religious groups but also as distinct racial groups. Poor, or shouild I say foolish, khalistanis have been rendered without a parentage. As far as Sikh like me are concerned we are Sikh-Hindu who will never deny themselves their parentage for the sake of a Toronto or London viza. And believe in the age old philosophy that no one gets away by doing what shouldn't be done.

The British are not immune to natural laws. The hang-over from their stupid kiplinesque morality they suffer from will have its own head-aches.

Thanks.

#12
Pat
patsirji@yahoo.com


Posts: 49
Registered: Mar, 2005


Re: A Provocative View of Indo-Pakistan Partition and Mahatama Gandhi Posted: Aug 16, 2005 12:01 AM
Reply
Gandhi, Jinnah, Godse et al were all creatures of time. Every once in a while, we brand someone a visionary. Sometimes it is Jesus, sometimes Buddha, sometimes Gandhi. All of them have ended up causing exactly opposite of what they intended.

In fact, history tells us that Vision and Result have nearly always been contradictory to each other. Hitler wanted to remove the Jews from the face of the earth. In the end, he is the core reason why Israel exists today. Brutus stabbed Julius Caesar because he was a patriot. He paved the way for tyrants like Caligula and Nero. Religions have come into existence with an express mission to spread peace. Yet, the killings carried out in the name of religion far outnumber all other deaths.

There are no visionaries. No one knows where the world is going. No one is right, no one is wrong. The only thing predictable is the unpredictability.

God save us from the well intentioned.

#13
arnab gupta
arnabgupta@hotmail.com


Posts: 588
From: Australia
Registered: Jul, 2003


Re: A Provocative View of Indo-Pakistan Partition and Mahatama Gandhi Posted: Aug 16, 2005 12:09 AM
Reply
That's a very insightful comment Mr. Pat

#14
Indian
indian@aol.com


Posts: 533
From: post
Registered: Sep, 2003


Re: A Provocative View of Indo-Pakistan Partition and Mahatama Gandhi Posted: Aug 16, 2005 2:59 AM
Reply
#15

I believe you are contradicting yourself. You start off by stating that some of the big names were just "flukes" of history. And then you end by saying God help up. That is the contradiction.

Jesus never preached violence, Gandhiji never preached violence, Buddha reconfirmed hinduism by stating that this world is a temporary phase and showed a way out.

Religion is a human creation , and then has been corruptly used to bring about changes, often violent for the supposed benefits of the society.

Yes, there are visionaries. Mandela said of Gandhi that he divinely inspired. Bill Gates is a visionary - he saw a huge development taking place in 15/20 years time, while people at IBM and so on were asleep.

Mandela is a visionary to have achieved freedom and kept South Africa intact. Ataturk was a visionary in that he gave up dreaming about caliphate, and brought Turkey into a modern world - not many muslims can boast that.

#15
san
i_m_sans@yahoo.com


Posts: 204
From: India
Registered: May, 2005


Re: A Provocative View of Indo-Pakistan Partition and Mahatama Gandhi Posted: Aug 16, 2005 7:20 AM
Reply
Post#15-Patsirji

I agree with the comments at Post#15. Only a very very few leaders have fought for the principles in which they believed in. I can only think of Abraham Lincoln(if I am not mistaken by my ignorance) whose acts and deeds matched with his beliefs and principles.

Our Gandhi and Nehruji and Jinnahji beleived in something else and did something else. Gandhi was a Hindu to his last core but believed(or acted) in secularism. Ditto with Nehru. His remarkable classic "Discovery of India" is nothing but a Hindu's view of the world history affecting India. Jinnah sahib was secularist, no doubt, but acted as a political leader out to save a religion.

Post#15 is right in saying that the only thing you can predict about them is their unpredictibility.

Replies: 26   Pages: 2   [ Go: 1 2 » ]
 
  Back to Topic List      Top of the page