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Musharraf's Hands are Tied as He is Seen as a Stooge
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#1
Administrator
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Musharraf's Hands are Tied as He is Seen as a Stooge Posted: Jul 24, 2005 9:31 PM
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Discuss the story Musharraf's Hands are Tied as He is Seen as a Stooge at

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#2
dbnows
karachhi@yahoo.com


Posts: 38
From: New York
Registered: Jul, 2004


Re: Musharraf's Hands are Tied as He is Seen as a Stooge Posted: Jul 24, 2005 10:38 PM
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Same old beaten up story.

#3
Mike Khan
mike_khan_ca@yahoo.com


Posts: 29
From: usa
Registered: Jun, 2005


Re: Musharraf's Hands are Tied as He is Seen as a Stooge Posted: Jul 24, 2005 11:51 PM
Reply
Imran Khan writes: " the Americans are impotent in this war on terror." great revelation ! never heard that before.

Now tell us about Sita White... and the rest before you start preaching morals

#4
sri
srikondoji@ebulawa.com


Posts: 33
From: US
Registered: May, 2005


Re: Musharraf's Hands are Tied as He is Seen as a Stooge Posted: Jul 25, 2005 12:22 AM
Reply
Imran khan has unsuccessfully tried to drag kashmir in his column. This is quiet evident in his writings.
True, LTTE was the first to use Human bombs, but they didnot use religion for their cause. Whatever they did was wrong, but fortunately they didnot glorify suicide bombers nor did they use Religion.
Also, there was no state sponsor for their activities.

According to Imran Khan, freedom struggle in kashmir is 150 years old. Wow, where did he get this information?
I would request him to do some research on this before making such stupid statements.

If pakistan doesnot close down those training camps and those madarassahs, then Imran Khan has to take political assylum in US or UK. Unfortunately chances are, he will be turned down. I would hate to speculate that, he will turn to india.
Good luck.

#5
mohamed
kw1997@hotmail.com


Posts: 49
From: saudi arabia
Registered: Jun, 2005


Re: Musharraf's Hands are Tied as He is Seen as a Stooge Posted: Jul 25, 2005 12:45 AM
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I THINK IMRAN KHAN HAS VERY RIGHTLY DESCRIBED THE SITUATION. WHETHER RABID INDIANS LIKE IT OR NOT.

WE HAVE NOT FORGOTTEN HOW VEGETERIANS INDIANS HAD BARB'QS IN GUJRAT , HOW THEY KILL INNOCENT CIVILIANS EVERYDAY IN KASHMIR. YESTERDAY THEY KILLED FIVE CHILDREN BECUSE THEY AERE PERCEIVED AS 'GHUS BATHIAY' (INTRUDERS ).

SHAME ON RABID INDIANS

MOHAMED
SAUDI ARABIA

#6
Dilber Khan
khandilber@yahoo.com


Posts: 494
From: Japan
Registered: Sep, 2004


Re: Musharraf's Hands are Tied as He is Seen as a Stooge Posted: Jul 25, 2005 1:57 AM
Reply
> Now tell us about Sita White... and the rest before
> you start preaching morals

If he has repented (in front of his God) and he is staying clean now like a good muslim, who are we to ask such questions? Even if criminals like Wabal Thakaray, Advani and Moozi do sincere TOABA from their hearts and spend rest of their lives according to Islamic teachings, their previous sins will be deleted and they will start their accounts like new born babies.

Is here any one among us able to disclose all his/her secrets in public? Let the secrets of Imran be between him and His God.

If some one commits some crime, will he have to live all his remaining life as a criminal, or there is some alternative for him?

#7
SC Gupta
scgupta5@indiatimes.com


Posts: 283
From: India
Registered: May, 2005


Re: Musharraf's Hands are Tied as He is Seen as a Stooge Posted: Jul 25, 2005 2:39 AM
Reply
Started fine, but ended like a cry-baby.

the words `Momma-Momma the bully stole my toys' was the best way to end the article.

But rather than trying to understand why 9/11 had happened, Bush and his colleagues took refuge in such inane expressions as "they hate our freedom, our way of life, our democracy" and, even more ridiculously, "they love killing". The main stakeholders used 9/11 to pursue their own agendas for which it was convenient to conflate Islam and terrorism.

Oh! So 9/11 was a great herioc deed. Wow I did not know that. :-(


Then India claimed that "Islamic terrorists" were operating in Kashmir when that freedom struggle dated back almost 150 years.

One Hundred and Fifty Years! The guy must be joking! May be it could have been extended to 1400 years... Bigger Joke :-)


Yet the perception in the West remained that somehow Islam was connected to militarism and terrorism, that all Muslims believe that all suicide bombers go straight to heaven. No one mentioned that before 9/11 70 per cent of suicide bombings in the world were committed by the Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka, who were Hindus. No one blames Hinduism, nor do they blame Shintoism for the Japanese Kamikaze pilots. Where religion is particularly strong, political martyrdom gets cloaked in religious terminology.

Wow! Now he will say that the freedom movement by GandhiJi was a Hindu conspiracy against Muslims. Then he will also say that Jalianwala bagh masacre was again a Hindu conspiracy - actually the people killed were not sikhs but muslims forced to pretend to be sikhs ......blah-blah......
So, I guess, Aryabhatta was a Hindu conspiracy against Muslims. And so I guess Abdul Kalam is not a muslim at all, but a Hindu conspiracy pretending to be muslim. May be cricketer Irfan Pathan's father is not a cleric in mosque, but a hindu conspiracy masquerading as a muslim cleric in a temple pretending to be a mosque.
& that poor terrorists are freedom fighters fighting against the democratic republic of India (oops sorry, the Hindu-conspiracy-against-Muslims-republic-of-India).
WOW!

See ..... I can also cook up stories :-)


Certainly some madrassas do preach hate against other sects, and they should have been closed a long time ago, And there needs to be modernization of the syllabus of Pakistan's entire education system, madrassas included.

Imran comes back to reality (modernisation of education..) with a dash of fiction (some madrasas... & not many!!!) in this para.


Imran should go back to cricket.

#8
Jameel Afridi
j_afridi10@hotmail.com


Posts: 33
From: Bahrain
Registered: Mar, 2005


Re: Musharraf's Hands are Tied as He is Seen as a Stooge Posted: Jul 25, 2005 6:34 AM
Reply
Imran Khan's article is generally a representative of the field realities and facts.

The seeds of Kasmir Freedom movemnet were sown in 1849 after the Lock-stock-and-barrel sale of Kashmir by the Brits to Gulab Singh Dogra for a princely sum of 7.5 Million Rupees! Thats when the Kashmiri Muslim majority population was sold to Dogras in perpetual slavery. The first Jehad operation in Kashmir was waged in 1855; the rout of Gogra garrisons from Sazin, Yasin and Gupis valleys, their declaration of autonomy, and forming allaince with the State of Chitral.

There is nothing remarkable about the scale of terrorist attocities on 9/11 or 7/7. Overall, less than 4000 lives were lost. On other hand Mr Modi scored more than 6000 Muslims killed in the Gujarat pogrom. The rape of Fallujah (Iraq) alone cost about 30,000 "non-combatants" lives, easily committed to the trash bin as Collateral damage.

The so called "war on terror" is a hype created through an enormous investment of US Tax payers money. Every 3rd world government; including those of India and Pakistan wanna have a piece of the pie. Even far flung nations like Macadonia, Thailand, Phillipines are supposedly engaged in the "global war against terror". Any country lucky enough to have a captive Muslim population is free to launch crackdown on "Muslim extremists" and spin in some cool cash!

#9
P.Zipk
PZipk@yahoo.com


Posts: 52
From: Michigan, USA
Registered: Feb, 2005


Re: Musharraf's Hands are Tied as He is Seen as a Stooge Posted: Jul 25, 2005 6:57 AM
Reply
"After the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in 1979, the US used Islam to counter the occupation"
Yes, US used Jihadis for their purpose, but Pakistani administration and the army knowingly and quite happily jumped into the jihadi quagmire. Why blame US alone?

"Pakistan paid a heavy price, being left with sectarian militant groups trained in terrorism and four million Afghan refugees. We were swamped with drugs and Kalashnikovs."
Instead of attempting to clean up the mess created during the Afghan conflict, the Pakistani army came up with a brilliant idea: let us exploit them just like Amricans did, encourage them, support them, hire them, train them and send them to Kashmir. Why is this fact not mentioned?

"But rather than trying to understand why 9/11 had happened, Bush and his colleagues took refuge in such inane expressions as "they hate our freedom, our way of life, our democracy"
Here I agree with you, the Bush people exploited the tragedy of 9/11 to maximum to build up their case to go to Iraq which was decided even before 9/11. But don't you see Bush got reelected because of 9/11/.

"before 9/11 70 per cent of suicide bombings in the world were committed by the Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka, who were Hindus"
No one blames Hinduism because Tamils did not fight in the name of religion, nor did they quote any scriptures. Still what they did and are still doing is wrong. Besides LTTE supremo Pirabakaran is a Tamil Christian.

"General Musharraf went further, making Pakistan a frontline state against Islamic extremism and terrorism. He invented the term "Enlightened Moderation" in the hope of encouraging Muslims to avoid militancy".
What else would you have done when Americans asked for complete cooperation or else face their wrath? Would you have joined Taliban and fought Americans? There probably is lot more connection between Al Qaeda and Pakistani Army than we know it. American would have gotten the UN to decare Pakistan a terrorist country. Is that in the national interest?

But you right in one thing, Musharaff did destroy the democratic institutions in Pakistan to prop himself up. And that cannot be good for Pakistan in the long run.

The point is Pakistan has to do some soul searching. Blaming everybody else for your problems is not going to solve problems. The latest news is that Egypt is looking for a few Pakistanis in connection with the bombings. That can't be good.

#10
Pat
patsirji@yahoo.com


Posts: 49
Registered: Mar, 2005


Re: Musharraf's Hands are Tied as He is Seen as a Stooge Posted: Jul 25, 2005 7:32 AM
Reply
Like most other pseudo-intellectual Pakistanis, Imran too is afflicted with some sort of persecution complex that makes him feel that Pakis deserve to be taken care of by the world and deserve to be regularly forgiven because they have been subject to so much of injustice.

Imran was a terrific cricketer, may be the best the subcontinent has produced. How on earth does that qualify him to judge everything under the sun is anybody's guess.

It is like saying that because Lance Armstrong is a great bicycle champion, he can sing better than Pavarotti...or because Musharraf was a good soldier, he can ensure Pakistan's recovery!

#11
SC Gupta
scgupta5@indiatimes.com


Posts: 283
From: India
Registered: May, 2005


Re: Musharraf's Hands are Tied as He is Seen as a Stooge Posted: Jul 25, 2005 7:36 AM
Reply
#9 Jameel,

Your freedom fighters are my terrorists. Simply because your disoriented youths create trouble in my country! Lot of things have changed in 150 years. If the so-called freedom fight is valid in that context, then the existence of Pakistan itself is a questionable fact.

Modis' Gujrat can be compared with Paksitan's record in Kashmir (illegaly occupied PoK as well as the state of J&K).

Can you imagine Modi creating havoc inside Pakistan? No he will not. Simply because he is not interested. If he was, don't you think Kashmir by now would have been full of RSS & VHP supporters. Don;t you think that these people would have spilled over to Paksitan & Afghanistan just like your jihadi forces spill over?

The very fact that in places there are 99% muslims which give enough excuse for getting up a `freedom movement' speaks of intolerance of Paki rulers.

If we nurture secularism, please don't take it as a weakness. Its only the strong who can do it. We have been self-critical of Modi & people like that. But then moderates have their limitations especialy in the times of externally created crisis.

Anyway lets discuss Imran Khan's cricket & politics.

#12
Irfan
missionpakistani@hotmail.com


Posts: 84
From: Karachi
Registered: Apr, 2005


Re: Musharraf's Hands are Tied as He is Seen as a Stooge Posted: Jul 25, 2005 10:51 AM
Reply
Mike_Khan

You are right I am surprised too at Imran Khan's statement. Imran Khan himself is a corrupt person and people know what he has been doing in the past. He was very potent for Sita White.
He made a hospital thats his greatness but he should know as well that this will not hide his previous activities.
I dont term Imran Khan more then a crickter. He is not yet matured to be a politician.

Pakistan Zindabad

#13
Irfan
missionpakistani@hotmail.com


Posts: 84
From: Karachi
Registered: Apr, 2005


Re: Musharraf's Hands are Tied as He is Seen as a Stooge Posted: Jul 25, 2005 11:05 AM
Reply
Mohammad

Dont expect so much from Imran Khan. The day he is given some power by the government he will never state a word against it.
I find him a complete opportunist person an e.g for reasons he married Jemima , but Jemina was much cleverer then Imran and bowled him out.
Everyone knows the past of Imran Khan . People know well that he has no pitch to play anymore , so he made a party Tehreek-e-Insaf.
Ask cricketers like Miandad what Insaf he gave to his players when he was a Captain. He belived in favouritism and nepotism in cricket.
As a criketer you can call him Fantastic.
In politics you need to have a different kind of bowler.
Imran cannot ball in politics.

Pakistan Zindabad

#14
Jawaid Khan
jawaid51@hotmail.com


Posts: 29
From: South Africa
Registered: May, 2005


Re: Musharraf's Hands are Tied as He is Seen as a Stooge Posted: Jul 25, 2005 4:11 PM
Reply
> "After the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in 1979,
> the US used Islam to counter the occupation"
> Yes, US used Jihadis for their purpose, but Pakistani
> administration and the army knowingly and quite
> happily jumped into the jihadi quagmire. Why blame
> US alone?
>
> "Pakistan paid a heavy price, being left with
> sectarian militant groups trained in terrorism and
> four million Afghan refugees. We were swamped with
> drugs and Kalashnikovs."
> Instead of attempting to clean up the mess created
> during the Afghan conflict, the Pakistani army came
> up with a brilliant idea: let us exploit them just
> like Amricans did, encourage them, support them, hire
> them, train them and send them to Kashmir. Why is
> this fact not mentioned?
>
> "But rather than trying to understand why 9/11 had
> happened, Bush and his colleagues took refuge in such
> inane expressions as "they hate our freedom, our way
> of life, our democracy"
> Here I agree with you, the Bush people exploited the
> tragedy of 9/11 to maximum to build up their case to
> go to Iraq which was decided even before 9/11. But
> don't you see Bush got reelected because of 9/11/.
>
> "before 9/11 70 per cent of suicide bombings in the
> world were committed by the Tamil Tigers in Sri
> Lanka, who were Hindus"
> No one blames Hinduism because Tamils did not fight
> in the name of religion, nor did they quote any
> scriptures. Still what they did and are still doing
> is wrong. Besides LTTE supremo Pirabakaran is a
> Tamil Christian.
>
> "General Musharraf went further, making Pakistan a
> frontline state against Islamic extremism and
> terrorism. He invented the term "Enlightened
> Moderation" in the hope of encouraging Muslims to
> avoid militancy".
> What else would you have done when Americans asked
> for complete cooperation or else face their wrath?
> Would you have joined Taliban and fought Americans?
> There probably is lot more connection between Al
> l Qaeda and Pakistani Army than we know it. American
> would have gotten the UN to decare Pakistan a
> terrorist country. Is that in the national interest?
>
> But you right in one thing, Musharaff did destroy the
> democratic institutions in Pakistan to prop himself
> up. And that cannot be good for Pakistan in the long
> run.
>
> The point is Pakistan has to do some soul searching.
> Blaming everybody else for your problems is not
> going to solve problems. The latest news is that
> Egypt is looking for a few Pakistanis in connection
> with the bombings. That can't be good.

#15
Pankaj Mathur
pankaj@runbox.com


Posts: 37
From: USA
Registered: Jun, 2005


Re: Musharraf's Hands are Tied as He is Seen as a Stooge Posted: Jul 26, 2005 1:24 AM
Reply
Hi all,

Lot of our Pakistani friends have pointed out India's involvement with LTTE and LTTE being the pioneer of suicide bombing before. While this demonstrate excellent understanding of global affairs and if possible I would like to expand their horizons a little bit further.

Yes, I admit that India's involvement with LTTE was wrong and except for one state Tamil Nadu there was not much support for LTTE in India to begin with. This mistake was realized and India eventually moved away from LTTE and had to bear the wrath of LTTE through Rajiv Gandhi's assasination. But we as Indians learnt our lessons and it is clear from following incidents:

a) Fiji's political turmoil few years back is a good example. Fiji with a large Hindu population (40% or more) was in a policitcal turmoil where the legitimate democratic government was ver thrown by local Fijians. India di not get involved just because they are Hindus or declared a jehad version of training suicide bombers.

b) Nepal went through the same turmoil and Nepal is officially a Hindu majority country, we did not interfer through proxy war and extend no support to militant faction.

It is true that India's involvement with Bangladesh and Sri Lanka was most unfortunate but we have demonstrated enough resilience and learning from our past.

I hope that answers some of the questions posted here and has refreshed memory of some of the people (including Imran Khan) who have selectively screened out past events.

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