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#1
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Signs That Washington is Ready to Stop Backing Musharraf Posted: Aug 7, 2005 1:21 PM
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#2
Narinder Dogra
dancescape@verizon.net


Posts: 96
From: Ca
Registered: Nov, 2004
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Re: Signs That Washington is Ready to Stop Backing Musharraf Posted: Aug 7, 2005 2:55 PM
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Democracy will not take deep roots in Pakistan or for that matter any Islamic country unless S.Arabis goes democratic. That won't happen any time soon.

All muslims are glued to S.Arabia because of religious values. You can see that in five prayers a day by a good muslim.

#3
nasah
nasah29@aol.com


Posts: 1,168
From: USA
Registered: Aug, 2003


Re: Signs That Washington is Ready to Stop Backing Musharraf Posted: Aug 7, 2005 7:03 PM
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"All muslims are glued to S.Arabia because of religious values"(ND)

'All' Muslims? -- like 'All' Hindus....?

#4
nasah
nasah29@aol.com


Posts: 1,168
From: USA
Registered: Aug, 2003


Re: Signs That Washington is Ready to Stop Backing Musharraf Posted: Aug 7, 2005 8:37 PM
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Mr. Musharraf will ignore at his own peril Ms. Rocca's WARNING.

now for Ms. Rocca -- Ms. Rocca does not need to go in the round about way with sophisticated phrases like 'levelling the playing field' when talking to the soldiers...

the military mind understands ONLY direct orders...

what Ms Condi Rice -- not Ms. Rocca -- must do is to ORDER IT OUT for Mr. Musharraf -- that despite his inborn love of a Quisling for all Quislings great and small -- post 7/7, Mushrraf MUST WORK for a National Unity Government of Consensus -- headed by Benazir and Nawaz Sharif -- that should include all leaders of other parties including the Quislings of both PPP and PML -- as well as the Military's Mullahs washed off of their Hisba crap.......at the earliest oportunity.....

spelling it out for Musharrad -- Ms. Rice must say -- General Musharraf you are hereby ordered to END THAT GODDAM EXILE FOR THE TWO MAINSTREAM LEADERS of the fracturing and sliding into Chaos COUNTRY..

....bring them home and and let them mobilize the disaffected masses -- and unite the country in democracy -- in eliminating terrorism at home and abroad....

.....if the MMA doesn't part with its Odious crap Hisba and male chauvinism -- sack the NWFP Talebani government -- and EXILE Fazlurrahman and Qazi Husain Ahmed to Mecca instead -- for washing their deadly SINS of polluting the minds of Pakistani kids and getting them killed in thousands in this life...

In Mecca the two can at least SALVAGE their sin free.... After Life....

#5
san
i_m_sans@yahoo.com


Posts: 204
From: India
Registered: May, 2005


Re: Signs That Washington is Ready to Stop Backing Musharraf Posted: Aug 8, 2005 1:02 AM
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It is good to note that the US is finally realising that Pakistan needs democracy and not dictatorship for its progress and prosperity. It is true that democracy cannot take roots in Pakistan if the US meddles with it. It is also true that if Pakistan is left to itself then democracy will definitely take roots there.

At the same time, Pakistanis should also remember that once democractic elections are held, angels are not going to descend from heavens to fight them. Chances are, they will be fought by all types of unscruplous elements of the society. But we have to keep patience. Democracy inherently keeps cleaning the mess though it takes time. You must have democracy continously for atleast 15-20 years before you would start getting the results to your liking. Before you get a feel that the things do get materialise the way you think. Dont expect much in 5,6,7 or may be 10 years. Its a slow process but a permanent one.

#6
mohamed
kw1997@hotmail.com


Posts: 49
From: saudi arabia
Registered: Jun, 2005


Re: Signs That Washington is Ready to Stop Backing Musharraf Posted: Aug 8, 2005 1:48 AM
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Guys

I know what I am going to say would please the author and the Indians to no end but unless there is a UN resolution for automatic economic sanctions against countries with military rulers, there is no hope in hell that military would let democracy flourish in Pakistan.

Miltary guys live like royalty in Pakistan. Every military officer gets a prized piece of land somewhere in addition to zillions of other benefits, they also take bribes when they are in civies, so do you sanely think they would let go of all these luxuries. Every military guy I have come across talks to civilians like they are some kind of low form of God's creation.

Having said that let me add that people like the author of this article is waiting like vultures to see their leader mis-rule Pakistan again.

We are truly very unfortunate people.

Mohamed
Saudi Arabia
go to pakisatb

#7
san
i_m_sans@yahoo.com


Posts: 204
From: India
Registered: May, 2005


Re: Signs That Washington is Ready to Stop Backing Musharraf Posted: Aug 8, 2005 2:41 AM
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It is good to note that the US is finally realising that Pakistan needs democracy and not dictatorship for its progress and prosperity. It is true that democracy cannot take roots in Pakistan if the US meddles with it. It is also true that if Pakistan is left to itself then democracy will definitely take roots there.

At the same time, Pakistanis should also remember that once democratic elections are held, angels are not going to descend from heavens to fight them. Chances are, they will be fought by all types of unscrupulous elements of the society. But we have to keep patience. Democracy inherently keeps cleaning the mess though it takes time. You must have democracy continously for atleast 15-20 years before you would start getting the results to your liking. Before you get a feel that the things do get materialise the way you think. Dont expect much in 5,6,7 or may be 10 years. Its a slow process but a permanent one.

#8
Viqar A. Minai
vminai@yahoo.com


Posts: 196
From: Virginia, USA
Registered: Jun, 2003


Re: Signs That Washington is Ready to Stop Backing Musharraf Posted: Aug 8, 2005 5:57 PM
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> what Ms Condi Rice -- not Ms. Rocca -- must do is to
> ORDER IT OUT for Mr. Musharraf -- that despite his
> inborn love of a Quisling for all Quislings great and
> small -- post 7/7, Mushrraf MUST WORK for a National
> Unity Government of Consensus -- headed by Benazir
> and Nawaz Sharif -- that should include all leaders
> of other parties including the Quislings of both PPP
> and PML -- as well as the Military's Mullahs washed
> off of their Hisba crap.......at the earliest
> oportunity.....

Alas, if our politicians were capable of rising above
their greed for power, the country would not be perenially
at the mercy of the generals.

It is just a pious hope. I doubt these goons have learnt
anything or that they would be willing to work together
in a government of national unity. Even if they did
agree to it initially, little time will be lost before
they start playing their silly games of chess to
try to outmanoeuver others and get it it all for
themselves. This has been the history of Pakistan; an
endless, on-going, game of chess and musical chairs.

The salvation lies with the people alone. They need
to rise up and get rid of the entire sickening system -
lock, stock, and barrel - once and for all.

#9
Danial jameel
danial_j@hotmail.com


Posts: 137
From: Toronto
Registered: Jul, 2003


Re: Signs That Washington is Ready to Stop Backing Musharraf Posted: Aug 8, 2005 8:56 PM
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>>>Democracy will not take deep roots in Pakistan or for that matter any Islamic country unless S.Arabis goes democratic. That won't happen any time soon.<<<


Mr.Narinder, would you kindly inform us on the sources of your theory and how you have come about such an outragoeus conclusion.


>>>All muslims are glued to S.Arabia because of religious values. You can see that in five prayers a day by a good muslim.<<<


As someone who studies History and International affairs i would like to clarify that National policies and intrests are not based on rehetoric. Thank you

#10
Qurat-Ul- Ain
wife_ngo@hotmail.com


Posts: 39
From: Islamabad
Registered: Jul, 2004


Re: Signs That Washington is Ready to Stop Backing Musharraf Posted: Aug 9, 2005 12:50 AM
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Mr. Danial I agree with you religion has got nothing to do with military rule or corruption let's not use this forum for discussion of religious beliefs. Dictatorship has got no religion it is cruelty to human being in all religions. Islam from the Prophets (PBUH) era believed in democracy and not in kingship.

#11
Pankaj Mathur
pankaj@runbox.com


Posts: 37
From: USA
Registered: Jun, 2005


Re: Signs That Washington is Ready to Stop Backing Musharraf Posted: Aug 9, 2005 1:10 AM
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Qurat-Ul- Ain

Islam from the Prophets (PBUH) era believed in democracy

Hi,

I have often seen people using PBUH or something similar in paranthesis earlier and it was always in reference to Prophets. And I must confess my ignorance, what does PBUH abbreviates and what is its significance?

Thanks.

#12
Indian
indian@aol.com


Posts: 533
From: post
Registered: Sep, 2003


Re: Signs That Washington is Ready to Stop Backing Musharraf Posted: Aug 9, 2005 2:49 AM
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#3

Except hindus are not beholden to any given country. There is no concept of ulmah, or having to face a given direction while praying. Muslims around the world have to face Mecca while prying, which in turn says Saudis are an exceptionally important part in muslims lives. Rightly or wrongly, that is the interpretation that is now part of the given. And yet God is everywhere - would you not agree.

#13
Indian
indian@aol.com


Posts: 533
From: post
Registered: Sep, 2003


Re: Signs That Washington is Ready to Stop Backing Musharraf Posted: Aug 9, 2005 2:51 AM
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#11

Peace be upon him = PBUH

#14
san
i_m_sans@yahoo.com


Posts: 204
From: India
Registered: May, 2005


Re: Signs That Washington is Ready to Stop Backing Musharraf Posted: Aug 9, 2005 6:15 AM
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Post#12-Mr.Indian

We(non-muslims) often get confused with the practices of Islam. Just like any other faith --what appears on the surface is different from what is beneath-Islam also has this property.

A slight insight into Islamic philosphy reveals that what we generally hear is our own ignorance. Most of the practices in Islam do have a sound reason(I may say more than in any other religion).

Islam is a religion which was principally meant for the Arabs. It was revealed to Prophet Sahib by Angel Gabriel. During those days, Arabia was following Jewish, Christianity and some other polthiesist(belief in multiple Gods) religions. These religions often clashed with each other resulting in bloodshed, slave-taking etc. Islam ,you can say, was an effort to end all the inequalities and differences amongst the human beings in Arabia on the grounds of religion, birth, class etc.

Islam's main foundations are that there is only one God( they call it Allah, which is arabic would mean the higest or the noblest Soul), all human are equal in His eyes and there is only one truth which has been revealed in the Holy Quoran. Though Quoran does traces its lineage to Torah(Jewish scriptures) and Gospel(Christian scripture) but it says that what has been revealed in the Quoran is the final truth.( This results in the differences amongst Jews & Christians on one hand and Muslims on the other). In one way, Islam tries to remove the differences amongst the humans in the lines of caste, religion, class etc. It is not appreciated by others is another matter.

While praying, Muslims are supposed to look towards the Kabba. We Hindus look towards the east i.e. towards the Sun whom we consider as one of the Gods-Surya Devta. A muslim has to generally offer his prayers in a Mosque. But what if there is no Mosque nearby-or he cannot go the Mosque everytime he wants to offer the prayers? Thats why to him, it has been granted that he may face towards Kabba and offer his prayers. Now if somebody wants to know in which direction is Kabba(from where he is standing) , so it has been said that it will to the west of your side. So while offering prayers, Kabba is important and not Saudi Arabia.

Saudi Arabia is -yes-the seat of Islam. Just like UP is the seat of Hinduism, Amritsar of Sikhism , Vatican of Christianity and Jerusalem of Jews. But facing towards Saudi Arabia while offering prayers does not mean that a Muslim is paying somekind of homage to Arabia or accepting its authority over himself. But to Kabba--yes he is doing both.

Now other practices of Islam like offering prayers five times a day etc. also are based on sound logics. For that you have to go through the Islamic Philosphy. In the end you will find that Islam is quite scientific in its character and is not a usual woo-doo type of a thing.

#15
Indian
indian@aol.com


Posts: 533
From: post
Registered: Sep, 2003


Re: Signs That Washington is Ready to Stop Backing Musharraf Posted: Aug 9, 2005 7:53 AM
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#14

Thanks.

Now why is UP the centre for Hinduism. The greatest book for the hindus - Bhagwad Gita, spoken by Lord Krishna at Kuruskhetra would suggest the state of Haryana as being the most important.

I did not think that looking east was that important, though suriya namashkar is held in high esteem.

As regards Allah=Noble soul, that equates to Parmatama=first/great/noble soul.

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